I think the opening as it stands has not given enough weight to the economic and inheritance implications of marriage, which are really quite fundamental, mainly because it looks at marriage through a modern developed-country viewpoint. ), look over the talk page, even just the last few sections, consider that there is a world outside the USA, make specific comments directed to improving the article. Trouvé à l'intérieur – Page 106This is where more lesbian and gay friendly services can be beneficial. ... Specific issues for adult social care in relation to sexuality Older adults Legally there is no accepted definition of an older person. Gay-friendly. Petesmiles 03:46, 6 February 2007 (UTC), I've also made a few more gnome-ish edits - most significantly removing a para on polygamous marriages which i didn't think fitted very well - and changing a few little words here and there... Having just sat the article now with the article before, I hope i've hit the mark by improving its flow without changing much meaning - the most obvious thing i've left out in this revision is the word spouse - is anyone really keen on getting that one in there? Only one subset of those relationships is marriage. Trouvé à l'intérieur – Page 119stage, in choosing a career, LGBTQ people may deliberately avoid occupations where it is difficult to pass as heterosexual or ... and the definition of gay and lesbian excludes gay and lesbian people not living with a samesex partner. Sdsds 19:14, 12 February 2007 (UTC), WP:LGBT and WP:GS bias is also not acceptable. Joie de Vivre 18:26, 6 February 2007 (UTC), The "Close Relationships" infobox interacts strangely with the "Family Law" infobox. The social, religious, or legal purposes of the relationship can vary widely, and may include: companionship or love; legitimizing sexual relations and procreation; the formation of a family unit; social and economic stability; education and development of offspring; and transfer of property. A marriage may be celebrated with a wedding ceremony,[9] which may be performed by a religious officiator or through a similar government-sanctioned secular process. 63.228.40.145 18:00, 11 February 2007 (UTC), I'm not sure where this conversation is going. Yet, I respect your feelings as passion is a beautiful thing. It should be removed from the article. Specifically stating that marriage is the union b/w a man and a woman is not NPOV due to Massachusettes. Gofriendly 2021-10-24. A bias is a prejudice in a general or specific sense, usually in the sense of having a predilection for one particular point of view or ideology. Instead, adding more of them would be great! OfForByThePeople 17:38, 13 February 2007 (UTC). Note: subject to revision by WP:GS. Due to this 1 state against 49 others who have yet to legally recognize marriage as anything other than the union of a 'man and woman' care must be taken when defining the matter. 1) Is marriage "just" a relationship between spouses or is it also a (metaphysical) union of spouses? Most marriages involve one woman and one man[5][6], although people of the same sex may marry, and some marriages involve more than two people. All of those things exist and are in my opinion marriage. I do agree with previous discussion(s) that this is where the "one man, one woman" thing should be addressed b/c it is the "majority" definition. Petesmiles, does it work for you? It's simple, short, and gets the viewpoint across clearly. Just because a relationship isn't recognized as marriage doesn't mean it isn't a marriage, nor does lack of recognition make a marriage illegal. 9) How do we want to structure the lead paragraph? Main rationale below; I'd probably also like to remove specific mention of the state of Massachusetts, which is terribly US-centric and overly specific (but yes, accurate - just not terribly vital at that point...) - I've left it in because of a feeling that its inclusion is important to some folk... Petesmiles 10:35, 13 February 2007 (UTC), Pete, It may be appropriate to amend that item to "to legitimize sexual relations; procreation;". 4) If there is not and never was sex involved, (e.g. Trouvé à l'intérieur – Page 320mean value definition of, 12 Measure 36, 5, 16, 33 median value definition of, 12 Medicaid, 135, 175, 263 Memphis, ... 156, 161 LGBT migration from, 1, 2, 149, 154, 182–185, 266, 267 LGBT migration to, 218 LGBT-friendly hospitals in, ... Sorry if I am neglectiing previous consensus, but again this is just how I believe neutrality can be reached. Joie de Vivre 16:39, 9 February 2007 (UTC), Please merge any relevant content from Marriage (post modern) per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Marriage (post modern). This introduction seems to have the endorsement of several editors, although some editors have clearly not been satisfied, and have reverted it without discussion. So i moved that y and z stuff to the end of the para - and i also tried to put the last sentence, which seemed tacked on, into the body of the para... i don't think i've stuffed up any references or anything this time (sorry all!) It is too early to discuss the details of polygamy. --FlammingoParliament 22:53, 12 February 2007 (UTC), Joie de Vivre suggests we might have to "list all the main relationships that people define as marriage." WjBscribe 05:32, 7 February 2007 (UTC), As a concrete example, does that represent your issue?-75.179.159.240 12:18, 7 February 2007 (UTC), This edit http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Marriage&oldid=106343560 introduced the phrase "to share love" in the second sentence of the lead. This version of 'Marriage' tries to do the same thing. 3. Sdsds 03:19, 18 February 2007 (UTC), terminated only by the death of one party Trouvé à l'intérieur – Page 404Gay, xii, 238–239 being LGBT, 1–42 See also Homosexual; Lesbian; LGBT Gaydar for dating, 49, 50 Gay-friendly companies, ... 303–304 Gender expression changing your name to a different gender, 22–23 definition of (Straight Talk), ... Petesmiles 04:41, 28 February 2007 (UTC), ps. 02:14, 14 February 2007 (UTC), Why is this banner still present? However, i don't think 'kinship ties' is a good defining phrase in the lead, and I think that Marriage globally is covered pretty well. I particularly didn't like this sentence; Most marriages involve one woman and one man[5][6], although people of the same sex may marry, and some marriages involve more than two people. 01:32, 5 February 2007 (UTC), So what exactly are you finding not neutral about this article then? The issue here is not that people such as Nkras should be satisfied, but that marriage is given the clearest definition that we can, given its historical and cultural evolution. I think it is the only way to end the recent edit wars. I've replaced the intro. Hello, pretty new here. The most commonly recognized form of marriage is between one woman and one man, where the feminine term wife and the masculine term husband are used to describe them. We would be remiss if we failed to communicate to our readers the vital relevance of governmental, religious, and social recognition of marriages. (i edited the above comment to turn bullets into numbers for ease of discussion - hope you don't mind Sdsds....) - re. That's at least a step towards more precision, but it was immediately shot down for reasons which are unclear to me. section above, User:Trishm writes, "Where you have two definitions, a general umbrella definition, which applies to everybody (NPOV), and a narrower definition, which applies to the majority (very common POV), then you would expect the umbrella definition first." in the first paragraph. Trouvé à l'intérieurTest 39 A1 v. simper definition (c) to smile in a silly or affected way; to smirk A2 n. coercion definition (c) use ... definition (d) lack of feeling; impartial; calm; unbiased A6 adj. convivial definition (c) festive; gay; friendly; ... [10] Some marriages include more than two people, with multiple spouses being married to multiple spouses, a form of relationship sometimes called group marriage. Trouvé à l'intérieurLa playlist est résolument poprock, clairement influencée par les années 1980 et 1990, mais la définition est un peu réductrice puisqu'on peut aussi bien y entendre du rock indé que de l'électro, de l'europop ou de la disco ! Sdsds 17:45, 9 February 2007 (UTC). How many are of two females? Is there any culture that does not recognize heterosexual marriage? Sdsds 14:14, 6 February 2007 (UTC). forms of marriage are worth significant weight in the lead, and I'm not sure that that's true. I'm going to do my last change back shortly, and then i'll leave well alone - but please remember to comment here. The families? There might be a different way to express it but I think NPOV requires polygamous marriage to mentioned from the outset. It is such a long standing arrangement that it has layers and layers of meaning, but I think the core idea is pretty solid. Sdsds 21:38, 7 February 2007 (UTC). Saying that "marriage is... a relationship, most frequently between a woman and a man" is not appropriate, just as saying "humankind is most frequently Asian" is not appropriate. The logic of this is good, but not perfect. I think we are taking 100,000 steps forward and 50,000 steps back, which equals slow and steady progress. 8) Do we want to define what "A marriage" is in the first sentence, or what "Marriage" is? We need something more generally applicable - perhaps drawing on the public nature of marriage, and the consequent public nature of the ceremony.Trishm 09:17, 9 February 2007 (UTC), The section on "Marriage restrictions" is unsatisfactory in several ways. The reasons people marry vary widely, and may include: to publicly declare love and/or companionship; to legitimize sexual relations and procreation; to form a family unit; to strengthen social and economic stability; to nurture and educate offspring. However, other types of marriage also exist. Trishm? I don't suppose there's a terribly nice way to say this, but the current state of the article is not good. A bias could, for example, lead one to accept or not accept the truth of a claim, not because of the strength of the claim itself, but because it does or does not correspond to one's own preconceived ideas. This is meant to illustrate that omitting information is a form of POV. Trishm 04:43, 8 February 2007 (UTC), Can someone tell me what the "The neutrality and factual accuracy of this article are disputed." Trouvé à l'intérieurTo them, even suggesting that there are LGBT-friendly interpretations of Islam is tantamount to heresy. ... Despite the inclusive intentions of this definition of membership, its ambiguity resulted in serious tensions in the past, ... Trouvé à l'intérieurany straight therapists who say they are “gay affirmative” mean that they are gay positive or gay friendly. They tell LGBTQ clients things like, “I'm open-minded,” and “People are people.” These well-intentioned therapists are, indeed, ... I imagine one can add "..from fictive kin". Male, Eunuch, and Female. With the goal in mind of having a first paragraph that describes marriage across the world in every culture, i.e. These two distinctions should be clearly specified in the article, and appear to be clearly defined. Well done for the fine effort. It read very badly, I think this is an improvement on readability and clarity, The central paras in the lead were very weaselly and contained unsourced claims (many, most etc. Sdsds 06:11, 26 February 2007 (UTC), I like your sentence sdsds, so I'm putting it in.... also, i've reworded the very opening just to get rid of those horrible - dashes.... Petesmiles 22:02, 27 February 2007 (UTC), PS - any objections to archiving this rather huge talk page? No other type of relationship is anywhere nearly so unanimously considered marriage. Answer (1 of 2): There is pottery from the Middle Kingdom (1800BC) that contains a listing of three genders. 5%, 10%?). How many are polygamous? I've gone ahead and included the other definitions, though, and if everyone's in agreement on just using the dictionary bit, perhaps that will be a good compromise? Trouvé à l'intérieur – Page 92Second, the Fenway clinic was the only area clinic to offer gay-friendly physical health services. ... a sign of the shifting definition of gay health within the city's gay communities.23 In this way, the expansion of identity-based ... which http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Marriage&diff=106025416&oldid=106024884 introduced? Sorry for being dippy, but would you mind giving an example of a type of marriage that this lead excludes that you wish to be included.... and thanks again - i think that's actually the nicest wiki compliment i've had! a "walking marriage"), is it really a marriage? We have gone straight into a Christian wedding ceremony, without any sense that anything else has ever existed. what: a legal contract. There has been favourable comment, but not been much adverse comment to the contents of the proposal in "Introduction using the umbrella approach". NPOV, Petesmiles 23:09, 13 February 2007 (UTC), Common types of marriage are (in alphabetical order) polygamous marriage, same-sex marriage and traditional marriage between a man and a woman, Because i thought it was redundant given the third para - and i don't think it works well in the first para... Petesmiles 01:28, 14 February 2007 (UTC), You are absolutely correct...though since as of yet I have very little invested here...I am simply trying to critique what is already in the article. But whichever comes first, the second paragraph should clearly communicate that it defines those relationships that everyone agrees are marriages. The current changes to marriage rules going on only make sense after a discussion of the rules of marriage in general, and how and why they change. There ought to be something to say, judging from the reversions, but these have been made without discussion. Trouvé à l'intérieur – Page 959Table 1 Systems-level principles underlying lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, questioning (LGBTQ) youth-friendly services Principle Definition Examples Availability The presence of health care providers with knowledge, competence, ... Perhaps simplifying it to only say 'There are many forms of marriage' would be the most appropriate thing, but the long intro which you have added is not necessary and detracts from the rest of the intro. alternative?) It isn't cool to wage war on the kingdom of your son's wife's father, for example. Like marriages, civil unions are performed and recognized by some religious denominations. I have made an attempt to do so, and eagerly await your comments here. - if certain types of marriage are verifiably statitisically dominant (eg. 5. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) Are we all working toward that goal? Most recently, Joie de Vivre removed from the lead the sentences that read: The form of marriage that is almost universally recognized is the union of one man and one woman as "husband" and "wife". Since it's been quite some time, I'm going to go ahead and remove it, but if anyone has serious issues left to solve please revert. People marry for many different reasons which may include: to publicly declare love and/or companionship; to legitimize sexual relations and procreation; to form a family unit; to strengthen social and economic stability; and to nurture and educate offspring.[14][15]. Would be appreciated if the "new" intro could be evaluated. Civil unions are a separate form of legal union open to couples of the same sex, and they are currently recognized in 24 countries and 6 U.S. states. - Petesmiles 11:51, 13 February 2007 (UTC), From the Union? I will toast this Chianti to you!!! Trouvé à l'intérieur – Page 525to form intimate relationships with members of their own sex, for fear of being perceived as LGBT. ... These programs work to create a LGBT-friendly environment by making no assumptions about sexuality, using non-gender specific ... To get back to the grammar, it could be said that "Most of the people on earth are Asian". Yet, as I said, I have not looked over the massive talk page and was simply giving my view. The use of "some" implies that the following list is incomplete. 15% this, 61% that etc. If this sentence is going to be used in the introduction... 13 of the past 17 edits are self-described as reverts, one other says, "Bull", and another, "are you kidding." Trouvé à l'intérieurIt seems like the countries with more hate crimes are those that have been more prominent in their LGBT activism (Brazil, ... Buenos Aires has become a gay-friendly place, the province is as homophobic as the rest of the continent (51). that's why it doesn't fit the undue weight bit to mention all other types, just the most common one. https://www.thefreedictionary.com/gay-friendly, Launched in 2013 and modeled on Airbnb, the site offers a database of places to stay in 65 countries, all of which are explicitly. Is there a way to fix this so "Family Law" comes first and "Close Relationships" comes below it? You may find the phrase 420-friendly often in personal ads, especially on Craig's List. Trouvé à l'intérieur – Page 902This is not to say that mid-twentieth-century Connecticut was, in any sense, gay-friendly. ... and 1980s Connecticut—where a thriving subculture began to take shape—one that would, in later decades, help define statewide LGBT politics. Sdsds 15:40, 13 February 2007 (UTC), I think riff's edits are pretty good - but still take issue with the opening sentence.
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